Carl Sagan: "There's no such thing as 'creationism.'"

HOST: This person would like to know why should not creation science be treated equally with evolution in our classrooms?

CARL SAGAN: Because there is no such thing as creation science.

Evolution is the backbone of modern biology.

You cannot understand the nature of the biological world without understanding evolution.

I maintain that evolution is a fact, not a theory.

Science uses the word theory in a way that's different from how it's used in everyday life.

In everyday life, people say, "Oh, that's just a theory," meaning you invented it while putting on your slippers as you got out of the bed this morning.

But in science, a theory is a very well-supported body of knowledge.

There's the atomic theory, that everything is made of atoms.

People don't say, "Oh, it's only a theory."

Evolution is a theory on that level.

It is very clear that evolution happened.

All you have to do is look at the record in the rocks.

If you have an undisturbed sedimentary column, at the top are the beasts and vegetables the fossils of the beasts and vegetables around now.

As you go deeper down, you go further back into time, as is clearly indicated by radioactive dating, and you find fossils of animals and plants you don't know.

Who are those guys? They're not around now.

Also, down there, how come there's no cows?

How come there's no people down there?

Is it just dinosaurs and trilobites? It's very clear.

Down there, many of the plants and animals around today weren't around.

They hadn't come into being yet.

Up here, those guys, those dinosaurs and trilobites, they're not around anymore.

They've all become extinct.

Life evolves.

Now, that doesn't say that when I say evolution is a fact, that's not the same as saying that the mechanism of evolution is a fact.

There, there is still significant debate on, for example, the extent to which natural selection explains everything or in which cosmic disasters have changed things, and so on.

But I think evolution is absolutely clear-cut, and of all the nations on the planet, this is about the only one in which it's a serious issue.

And it's a serious issue for emotional reasons.

That is, there are a lot of people who don't want to be considered an animal.

I'm sorry. I'd be glad not to call you an animal if it offends you.

But we are animals. We have evolved, and it's very important self-knowledge.

And then, of course, the main reason is that there are people whose belief in the literal truth of every jot and tittle in the book of Genesis is offended by evolution.

But the book of Genesis, I must say, is not literally true.

It has problems. It has internal contradictions.

Genesis chapter one contradicts Genesis chapter two, just to start at the beginning.

The Bible clearly implies that the earth is flat.

It talks about the four corners of the earth in many places.

Maybe you remember the time that Satan takes Jesus to a high mountain to offer him all the kingdoms of the earth.

From that high mountain, you can see all the kingdoms of the earth only if it's a flat earth.

If the earth is round, you can't see the kingdoms on the other side.

At least Satan thought that the earth was flat, and nothing that the author of that section of the Bible wrote contradicts it.

The Bible is a great literary document. It's a great historical document.

It's a great ethical and moral document, but it is not a scientific document.

And I think that is something which is clear and ought to be taught.

And creation science, so-called, is merely an attempt to introduce, contrary to the clear intent of the First Amendment, and I certainly share your fondness for it, of a particular religious viewpoint imposed on the educational system in the United States.

Not only would I like to see First Amendment lounges, I'd like to see the whole United States declared a First Amendment zone.

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